Options
[Video] Canyon Sender (suspension motion & analysis)
AndreXTR
Posts: 64
Hello guys
Just want to share my analysis to the new Canyon Sender suspension system with the new MX-link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7MEskfGjvE
Hoje you like it.
Bye
Just want to share my analysis to the new Canyon Sender suspension system with the new MX-link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7MEskfGjvE
Hoje you like it.
Bye
0
Posts
Don't forget axle thrust forces for anti squat ;-)
VOODOO CANZO
Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
― Kurt Vonnegut
Anyway, the curve of force of Sender and YT Tues are very similar, the main difference is that Tues ramp-ups a bit more at the final quarter of travel (more progressive). And my Specialized BigHit 2010 has an almost superimposed curve. So I guess that even my "shitty" Big Hit has a Triple Phase Suspension system... Cool !
Bye
― Kurt Vonnegut
It'll certainly feel a lot better than the old torque which was the worst modern downhill bike I have ridden.
How do you get the exact suspension geometry to be able to calculate the rate curves?
― Kurt Vonnegut
To build the model, I used the technical drawings shown at the begging of the video and the geometry data released by canyon. The model is quite accurate, and the resultant shock length & stroke matched perfectly (240 x 76mm shock). The model is now available to everyone at the linkage software database. Bye
http://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/stories/20 ... _62404.jpg
Axle path makes a big difference. It's what makes bikes like the Mondraker Summum and Specialized Demo so fast. A forward axle path will loose more speed over square edge hits and big rocks and roots.
My Nukeproof Scalp is single pivot so has a forward axle path, going in to a rock garden behind my mate on his Mondraker Summum at the same speed he just f**ks off because I loose so much more speed.
The graph in the vital link gives no figures, just a vague shape which shows it is progressive but without figures the information it gives is extremely limited.
I design suspension components for cars and can't get geometry details from any manufacturer I'm working for, even for current models.
(min 02:22)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJhXehvEhvQ
The same for Dartmoor Wish (min 2:10)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCy6_9oqHzY
So, as I said in the disclaimer on the videos, the simulation data is not 100% accurate, but it's a very close approximation to the real data. Considering that manufactures don't share this data, this is the best you can get.
Bye
I agree with axle paths, 10mm difference is large in these terms, could not only have an effect on bump response as RM points out, but will alter the ICs and therefore anti squat/anti rise/pedal kickback in different parts of the travel.
And yep, the Demo has a noticably forward curved axle path in the latter part of the travel - something like -100% anti squat in a 36/18!
VOODOO CANZO
Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
Yes, I also saw a comments of DW criticizing linkage. The software is very precise the problem is the errors on model construction. And he is right when you are modeling a bike with very small links using a side-view photo with distortion. That can give significative errors on leverage curves. But with schematic drawings, or a hi-res photos in bikes with large links, you can get a very accurate data close to data provided by the manufacturers (as I showed in the above videos). So, overall, it's a great tool.
Yes, Demo has negative anti-squats on smaller rear cogs....... Extra-pedal bob
RMSC, what you state about forward axle path is true, it robs energy and hangs on square edges but truth is everybody has it.
The only way to get a rearward axle path is with a really high pivot point and the consequenses that follows with it,
the rest systems single pivot/fsr or whatever they like to call it, it gives forward axle path at some point in the travel no matter what you do, you can choose where you want to put it but can't eliminate it, the rear axle ALWAYS travels in an arc, so moving forward is inevitable
― Kurt Vonnegut
The IC/antisquat/anti rise etc are more sensitive in weight transfer, not so with axle path.
Fore aft movement on the bike and height of your body mass in relation with the bike hugely affect Ic, it will wander all over in the minor body position movevent, you don't ride fixed in one position, do you?
The readings and calculations you get are useless as you only get an idea while the bike is in a stable state, something is not true when going downhill neither when climbing.
Have a read here
http://bicyclingclassifieds.com.au/2013 ... -marketing
― Kurt Vonnegut
This works better
― Kurt Vonnegut
VOODOO CANZO
Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
No amount of numbers or graphs show how a bike actually feels to ride and they're all very different.
Good call to mention the Solid Strike.
MTB Scotland youtube channel
So you've ridden one? If so, more details!
He bought it to replace a 2014 Demo and he's definitely faster on the Strike and really likes it.